Discussions of Day 2

Day 2 • afternoon jam up
Main questions emerged on this thread from 9.00 am to 3.30 pm

  • If art had to remain mostly publicly funded, what would be ideal criteria for public funding? 
  • If the art is publicly or privately funded: does it make a difference for the art/artists?
    For example:
  • Should museums be less affiliated and influenced by power institutions? 
  • Does art necessarily involve individual financial risk or frugality?

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  • I don't know if I fit in this line of discussion with my comments, but there is no other space...Today, at "live" debate at St. John's Centre in Gdansk I remarked that the main role of artists and intellectuals in Poland it is to empower people - to make them realise that their opinion counts, and so does their vote in elections.  This is in relation to the on-going discussion whether artists are "special, chosen" people. In the discussion today there were opinions that artists are just like other people in the society - no special status for them. Perhaps no special status but...while doctors heal people's bodies...I think that artists have this special power to touch our souls and minds. To be an artist requires a special frame of mind. Requires special skills. So why we denny this expertise to artists, while it is ok with other professions e.g. IT specialists, miners, bus drivers, for example?  In my opinion, artists are those peple who possess this unique power of freedom and independence, and they can share it with us. Just as other professionals do, but in a more emotional way...

    • I  totally  agree and try  to  act  accordingly with my  "interactive  exhibitions".

  • Going back to some of the earlier questions and replies I began to wonder whether the role of an intellectual is the issue these days.  For me an intellectual is someone who uses their left brain logic to follow some Cartesian thread in exploring in ever finer detail an issue.  On the other hand I sense an artist as someone who breaks this logical thread with intuition and creative courage, breaking the mold and offering an entirely new paradigm.  The intellectuals pick this up and then make something altogether more obtuse and complex.  A number of my artist friends, painters, musicians, writers find the intellectual more like the critic, jumping on any new idea to show off their "intellect".  The most powerful reactions to art cannot be explained because they are beyond immediate understanding - try explaining a beautiful sunrise, or hearing a birdsong in winter, or the call of a dolphin/whale underwater.  Surely the real impact of true art is awe at such a powerful communication.  Aggressive actions rarely create such response.  For me the evidence of emotion in any art is the real issue, where you find emotion you will find connection.

    • While I understand your contention well, I would not make it so either/or. I am an intellectual AND an artist, and so were Leonardo da Vinci, Piero della Francesca, Marcel Duchamp, Robert Motherwell, and many others. The type of intellectualism you describe is to me academicism, not genuine intellectualism which is more about excitement and passion for learning and ideas and insights. But indeed, that kind of dry, show-offy, (pseudo- or only partial) intellectualism is a contemporary problem in particular.

  • Contemporary art(ist) need to participate to be a part of digital revolution. A new world is under progress.

    The same phenomena that we see in this era exist in the music field, autoproduction, success only on network, live streaming concert, new way of sharing, new economical model, have change the world of music .... Contemporary art can follow some of this process, new place, new medias, new way of sharing idea like here ... Most of the Musicians have change the way of broadcast their art, contemporary art need to do the same, a digital revolution in fact ... We can compare Museum to Major company, and most of the art to mainstream actually ... Some of the major company are always alive because they have follow this new way of thinking media ... other, slowly died ... 

    • the digital revolution is  just  technology as   was  technology oil painting on canvas. It does  not  by itself bring  necessary new -old ideas, social  change and subsequent  images. Unfortunately  the  liberal-fascist Hollande gouvernement   focuses on digital  and not on art ... Kick  them out !

  • I think both specualtor capitalist sales structre AND full public funding are generally bad for art and artists. One is a servant of money in the first, and the second one is a servant of bureaucracy. The secong can be even more nefarious as it is less "in-your-face." We see the results on our artworld now of the control over fame and opportunities that the curator class has from the Kunsthallen et al., while the control over livelihood that the speculators have in galleries. Galleries in the olders ense of small "shops" where artists had relationahips with gallerists for decades and built interest together --- this has been killed, or close to that. So they hardly count anyway. "Poppy State" is not substitute, as it inevitably involves layers of "Movers and Shakers" (Curators) who become the Lorenzos with public money. This has resutled in the Mannerist, Academicist Postmodernism we all know and dislike. We need entirely new models. At least one. But what?

  • When art supports life itself versus violence, the artist gets trouble. His woork is blacklisted. Is there support for aesthetics that are more into "peace"? collectors visiting art fairs often explain that art is getting aggressively violent and depressing. Is it so?

  • Hi everybody,

    From the Association of Catalan Language Writers we'd like to intervene in this thread with this text by the poet, essayist and performer Carles Hac Mor (1940-2016):

    The moment one does really not want to mean anything, it's when one means the most.

    [Carles Hac Mor]

        Art – which actually existed, in days gone by, in the scope of the sacred and, later, in the scope of metaphysics – has today been dissolved in everyday life, which isn't sacred or metaphysical at all: it isn't art anymore, everything is already art, nothing is art anymore. And if it continues to be art in any way – pretending it is art – it is out of inertia towards everything that became institutionalized together with art.
        What we call art lies in the practices that are qualified as artistic and which, through the theories of art, are thought to be art. And, thus, they are granted and they grant themselves a series of specificities which are not specificities, a series of characteristics which they share with all the practices that art theories don't qualify as artistic.

        No practice has to become integrated in society, for the mere reason that every practice will already be born and die integrated in society and in the spirit of an era, even though they try to disintegrate society and time conditioners, an aspiration which is quite interesting as a starting point for any practice.

        Once we've detheorizated art, the practices that are now known as artistic will continue to exist, but without attributing to themselves that which art theories grant them. These practices will feel relief and they will gain freedom and libertinism, since the repressive institutions that go together with that which is called art will have lost their theoretical foundation (for instance, art criticism, an institutionalized demonstration of the critical spirit and the obsession –moralist, ethicist and economicist – to issue value judgements). (TRANSLATED FROM CATALAN BY: Laia Martinez i Lopez)


    Tan bon punt hom de debò no vol dir res és quan en diu més, de coses
    [Carles Hac Mor]

        L’art --que sí que va existir, antany, en l’àmbit d’allò sagrat i, després, en el d’allò metafísic-- avui s’ha dissolt en allò quotidià, no gens sagrat ni gens metafísic: ja no és art, ja tot és art, ja res no és art. I si continua essent art d’alguna manera --fent veure que és art-- és per la inèrcia de tot allò que amb l’art es va institucionalitzar.

        Allò que hom denomina art rau en les pràctiques qualificades d’artístiques i que, a través de les teories de l’art, es pensen que són art. I, així, s’atorguen i hom les atorga unes especificitats que no són especificitats, unes característiques que comparteixen amb totes les pràctiques que les teories de l’art no qualifiquen d’artístiques.

        Cap pràctica no té perquè integrar-se en la societat, per la senzilla raó que tota pràctica ja neix i mor integrada a la societat i a l’esperit d’un temps, encara que mirin de desintegrar la societat i els condicionaments del temps, la qual aspiració resulta força interessant com a punt de partida per a una pràctica.
        Un cop feta la desteorització de l’art, les pràctiques ara com ara anomenades artístiques continuaran existint, sense atribuir-se però allò que els atorguen les teories de l’art. Aquestes pràctiques s’hauran tret un pes de sobre i guanyaran en llibertat i llibertinatge en perdre el seu fonament teòric les institucions repressives que acompanyen això que en diuen art, com la crítica d’art (manifestació institucionalitzada de l’esperit crític i de la mania --moralista, eticista i economicista--d’emetre judicis de valor).

    Keep going!! ;)

  • One of the steps taken here in Sweden that I am in full support of is the acceptance of the MU agreement in 2009. MU website

    A calculated remuneration for artists publically showing their work. I wonder if/what there are from other similiar policies adopted across Europe?

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